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IceColdRider

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Sikhism: discussion
« on: January 03, 2012, 08:41:50 AM »
After a conversation started with Nek Singh which diverts from the Subject of the topic where we talking before, I thought it better to start a new topic to continue.
Lol, I didn't want to spoil the original topic back there.

So, according to your answers which were :


A1. All are same .. SIKH , KHALSA and Singh/ Kaur all are same ...

How are they same ?
A Sikh(a student or a disciple) who follows Sri Gur Granth Sahib Ji, who abides by the teachings of the holy book which has scriptures not only of our Gurus but also many other great personalities, saints and poets.

Being a Sikh means "Seekh" (learn).Be open to learn, don't be enclosed with false believes, be open minded towards enlightenment with true knowledge." Sikhan da mann neeva, matt uchi ", this quote from the Gurbani expalins as an example.
With this belief, the concept of Sikhism started.It wasn't declared by anyone, the people(our respected ancestors) associated themselves as Sikhs.Gur Nanak Dev Ji sab de saanjhe Guru si.

If this was the case, then why did Gur Gobind Singh Ji say " sab Sikhan ko hukkam hai Guru maneo Granth" ? Why didn't he say " sab Sighan ko hukkam hai " or " Sab Khalseya ko " ?

Khalsa meaning pure has to do with deep spirituality.Anyone who wishes to enjoy spiritual bliss can become a Khalsa, provided he or she abides by the rules of being a Khalsa.

According to your standards the Sahajdhari Sikhs(non baptized Sikhs) shouldn't attach the suffix ' Singh ' as their surnames.Should they or not ?

For being a Khalsa one has to be strong at heart for being able to abide by the rules of being a Khalsa.I've seen Amritdhari Sikhs taking alcohol and drugs like any other youth of Punjab.Do they stand as being pure Sikhs ? How can you call them a pure Sikh ?

Why has 'Amrit Vehla' been told by Gur Sahib to start with the Japji Sahib or say the best timing for Japji Sahib ? Is it because it is a time of purity at 5am ? If it is then how is 5am the purest time for doing Jaap, why not any other timing ? The day and night is just due to the rotation of the earth.How does the rotation of the earth has anything to do with a time of purity ?

It is because, if we sleep early and wake up fresh at 'Amrit Vehla' after completing our sleep we have our brain cells more energized and fresh, lesser thoughts are coming to our mind, we have a better concentration and understanding of things.During this time our brain is positively active and not much imaginative due the tensions of the day and this allows us to connect ourselves better with Japji Sahib.According to the different functioning levels of the barin at different timings of the day, there have been different paaths told to us for different timings, like Rehraas Sahib in the evening.

Try understanding the facts behind things that have been ordered to Sikhs by the Gurus, rather than blindly just running after, only then you can have true enlightenment.



A2. Nitnem is must for a sikh. However anybody can do it and follow the bani .. but for being a sikh you must do nitnem.

Following Gurbani and Nitnem brings you close to the almighty, as told by our Gurus.Once you're on this path then are you not a Sikh ? Following this path and not looking around anywhere else(although keeping respect for all faiths) and following a strict routine daily makes you what else ? Respecting all religions(also taught in the Granth Sahib) but keeping the faith only in the Guru Granth Sahib makes you what other ?
Co-relate this qoute with your A1 now.



A3 You are not a sikh .  as clear as that .  but who actually are you that you should sit and think.

I very well know who I am and so does my Guru, I need not any certifications from anyone.
I am a Sikh, but unfortunately not a Khalsa just like may other Sikhs.



A4 We are not allowed to question our guru for why ..
Guru da hukam hi ho gya fe koi why vegreh da question hi nhi reh gya ..


Not even once I questioned our Gur Sahib.I questioned only to you, to understand your version.
Understanding the reasoning and the psych behind the Gurus Hukkam is not wrong.It's like running in the dark and the results of such a mentality we've already seen that 'Sikhi' is vanishing from Punjab in great numbers.I see you running in the same darkness, without an understanding towards things.Think about it and then feel what it is to be like a ' Kesdhari ' Sikh than to be Sikh without Kes.If you can feel the difference spiritually then probably you're on the right path and if still not then it's your failure as a Sikh.

Even Jesus Christ had long hair, long enough to be a pure Sikh.Even Sant Ravidaas Ji.The list is long.But why ? That's the question.



I am very clear about these things 22 ji ..

You know as much as you don't.You think that you know, but that may not be the truth.
If you really knew about these things, then you would have not said that Sikh and a Khalsa are the same.

No they're not.

You're a Khalsa only after you are baptized to one, i.e, only after taking the Amrit with all the rituals.' Daat Khalse Di ' is given if you have uncut hair and beard.
So I'm a Sikh but not a Khalsa.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2012, 12:53:31 PM by _noXiouS_ »

Punjabi Janta Forums - Janta Di Pasand

Sikhism: discussion
« on: January 03, 2012, 08:41:50 AM »

Offline Nek Singh

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Re: A continuation of a coversation between Me and Nek Singh
« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2012, 09:52:43 AM »
Sat sri akal 22 ji
Je aapa sikh sirf ik word dekhiye fe taan sare lok hi sikh aa kyn ke oh kise na kise nu taan follow krde aa teh sikhde aa ...
  sare isayi lok christ de sikh aa teh muslims lok mohamad de sikh. 
we are talking about sikh kaum. Teh oh ik institute aa jis layi addmission lyi jo uniform aa oh aa sikhi saroop (notice here they call it sikhi saroop not khalsa saroop).
Sikh ohi aa 22  ji jo apne dassa guruyan teh guru granth sahib nu follow kre teh amrit da sevan kre.
Rehit nu follow kre.
 Guru ji ne sanu vakhri pechan diti aa je asi edha justify krn lag pye taan asi guru de hukam de barkhilaf haan... 
hor daso sikh nu ki ki allowed tuhade mutabik. Khalsa teh guru da sikh ik hi aa... 
you belong to it only if you follow guru da hukam...
Eh Samjhna  ke guru ji ne edha kyn keha galat nhi aa but usnu follow krna must aa har bande lyi je oh sikh akhvona chaundha aa...
 apna kheda nhi shadyida eh keh ke asi khalsa nhi ban sakde haan asi nashe kr lene aa but asi keda khalsa aa asi taan sikh aa sikhde aa hle... 
22 ji illusion cho bahar aayo gursikh de asal matlab nu samjho. 
only if you follow rehat ..
Have 5 kakar and then follow bani you are a sikh other wise no ....

Baki i m on my way to home ghare pahunch ke har ik question ute discuss krde aa individually...

Milde aa thode time bad 
« Last Edit: January 03, 2012, 11:27:15 AM by ~ ਨੇਕ ਸਿੰਘ ~ »

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Re: A continuation of a coversation between Me and Nek Singh
« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2012, 10:17:03 AM »
After a conversation started with Nek Singh which diverts from the Subject of the topic where we talking before, I thought it better to start a new topic to continue.
Lol, I didn't want to spoil the original topic back there.

So, according to your answers which were :


A1. All are same .. SIKH , KHALSA and Singh/ Kaur all are same ...

How are they same ?
A Sikh(a student or a disciple) who follows Sri Gur Granth Sahib Ji, who abides by the teachings of the holy book which has scriptures not only of our Gurus but also many other great personalities, saints and poets.

Being a Sikh means "Seekh" (learn).Be open to learn, don't be enclosed with false believes, be open minded towards enlightenment with true knowledge." Sikhan da mann neeva, matt uchi ", this quote from the Gurbani expalins as an example.
With this belief, the concept of Sikhism started.It wasn't declared by anyone, the people(our respected ancestors) associated themselves as Sikhs.Gur Nanak Dev Ji sab de saanjhe Guru si.

If this was the case, then why did Gur Gobind Singh Ji say " sab Sikhan ko hukkam hai Guru maneo Granth" ? Why didn't he say " sab Sighan ko hukkam hai " or " Sab Khalseya ko " ?

Khalsa meaning pure has to do with deep spirituality.Anyone who wishes to enjoy spiritual bliss can become a Khalsa, provided he or she abides by the rules of being a Khalsa.

According to your standards the Sahajdhari Sikhs(non baptized Sikhs) shouldn't attach the suffix ' Singh ' as their surnames.Should they or not ?

For being a Khalsa one has to be strong at heart for being able to abide by the rules of being a Khalsa.I've seen Amritdhari Sikhs taking alcohol and drugs like any other youth of Punjab.Do they stand as being pure Sikhs ? How can you call them a pure Sikh ?

Why has 'Amrit Vehla' been told by Gur Sahib to start with the Japji Sahib or say the best timing for Japji Sahib ? Is it because it is a time of purity at 5am ? If it is then how is 5am the purest time for doing Jaap, why not any other timing ? The day and night is just due to the rotation of the earth.How does the rotation of the earth has anything to do with a time of purity ?

It is because, if we sleep early and wake up fresh at 'Amrit Vehla' after completing our sleep we have our brain cells more energized and fresh, lesser thoughts are coming to our mind, we have a better concentration and understanding of things.During this time our brain is positively active and not much imaginative due the tensions of the day and this allows us to connect ourselves better with Japji Sahib.According to the different functioning levels of the barin at different timings of the day, there have been different paaths told to us for different timings, like Rehraas Sahib in the evening.

Try understanding the facts behind things that have been ordered to Sikhs by the Gurus, rather than blindly just running after, only then you can have true enlightenment.



A2. Nitnem is must for a sikh. However anybody can do it and follow the bani .. but for being a sikh you must do nitnem.

Following Gurbani and Nitnem brings you close to the almighty, as told by our Gurus.Once you're on this path then are you not a Sikh ? Following this path and not looking around anywhere else(although keeping respect for all faiths) and following a strict routine daily makes you what else ? Respecting all religions(also taught in the Granth Sahib) but keeping the faith only in the Guru Granth Sahib makes you what other ?
Co-relate this qoute with your A1 now.



A3 You are not a sikh .  as clear as that .  but who actually are you that you should sit and think.

I very well know who I am and so does my Guru, I need not any certifications from anyone.
I am a Sikh, but unfortunately not a Khalsa just like may other Sikhs.



A4 We are not allowed to question our guru for why ..
Guru da hukam hi ho gya fe koi why vegreh da question hi nhi reh gya ..


Not even once I questioned our Gur Sahib.I questioned only to you, to understand your version.
Understanding the reasoning and the psych behind the Gurus Hukkam is not wrong.It's like running in the dark and the results of such a mentality we've already seen that 'Sikhi' is vanishing from Punjab in great numbers.I see you running in the same darkness, without an understanding towards things.Think about it and then feel what it is to be like a ' Kesdhari ' Sikh than to be Sikh without Kes.If you can feel the difference spiritually then probably you're on the right path and if still not then it's your failure as a Sikh.

Even Jesus Christ had long hair, long enough to be a pure Sikh.Even Sant Ravidaas Ji.The list is long.But why ? That's the question.



I am very clear about these things 22 ji ..

You know as much as you don't.You think that you know, but that may not be the truth.
If you really knew about these things, then you would have not said that Sikh and a Khalsa are the same.

No they're not.

You're a Khalsa only after you are baptized to one, i.e, only after taking the Amrit with all the rituals.' Daat Khalse Di ' is given if you have uncut hair and beard.
So I'm a Sikh but not a Khalsa.


bai ji thode dimag vich swaal te doubts boht ne te je thonu apne swala de jvab chahide ne te thode khud to ilava unha swala de jvab thonu koi ni de sakda. :hehe:



Offline Gurpinder Mand

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Re: A continuation of a coversation between Me and Nek Singh
« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2012, 10:39:21 AM »
bai ji thode dimag vich swaal te doubts boht ne te je thonu apne swala de jvab chahide ne te thode khud to ilava unha swala de jvab thonu koi ni de sakda. :hehe:




ki tusi bai ji dass sakde o k oh ki doubts nae, shyad mere vich oh galtia hun, shayad mae dekh ni paa raya, ja pher mae galat sikh raya howan, tusi v dass davon ki doubts ta jo k asi dekh sakiyae dubara ous galti nu labh sakiyae?

mera ess vich koi aah matlab ni k tusi galat kah rahe ho, mae ta sirf sikhna chounda.

Offline ਕਰਮਵੀਰ ਸਿੰਘ

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Re: A continuation of a coversation between Me and Nek Singh
« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2012, 10:43:26 AM »
:hehe: bai ji kyo sharminda  karde o

mai eh sirf is karke kiha k bai ji hora me har gall te swaal uthaya te dharam vich sirf devotion hundi e facts te reasons nai


Offline Gurpinder Mand

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Re: A continuation of a coversation between Me and Nek Singh
« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2012, 10:59:34 AM »
:hehe: bai ji kyo sharminda  karde o

mai eh sirf is karke kiha k bai ji hora me har gall te swaal uthaya te dharam vich sirf devotion hundi e facts te reasons nai



veer g mae tahanu sharminda nahi kar raya, mae padh raya c, dowa veera jawab vich doubts haa giyan nae, par jida k tusi mere nalo umar vich tae oda gyaaan (thodiya kaffi replies bahut vadiya hundiya taa kar kaya) vich  aggae ayi ho gae. tusi ohna tae chan na paundae jo galh nu thora jaya khol dae shyad apa sare kush sikh jayi.
baki veer g manu koi jyada knowledge ni haa thoadae sab nalo bas athae pardh k sikhi da.
 
jidda k mae paddh raya c...
 
 
ੴ ਸਤਿਨਾਮ ਗੁਰਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥
ਕੀ ਤੁਸੀ ਸਿੱਖ ਹੋ ? ਜਾਂ ਗੁਰਸਿੱਖ ਜਾਂ ਇੱਕ ਗੁਰਮੁਖ ਹੋ ? ਜਾਂ ਤੁਸੀ ਆਪਣੇ ਨਾਮ ਨਾਲ ਖਾਲਸਾ ਲਗਾਉਣਾ ਚਾਹੁੰਦੇ ਹੋ ? ਇਹ ਸਾਰੇ ਸ਼ਬਦ ਇੱਕ ਦੂਸਰੇ ਨਾਲ ਬਦਲ ਕੇ ਵਰਤੇ ਜਾਂਦੇ ਹਨ, ਪਰ ਇੱਕ ਰੂਹਾਨੀ ਸੋਚ ਅਨੁਸਾਰ ਉਹ ਵੱਖ ਵੱਖ ਰੂਹਾਨੀ ਵਿਕਾਸ ਦੇ ਵੱਖ ਵੱਖ ਪੜਾਵਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਦਰਸਾਉਂਦੇ ਹਨ।
ਥੋੜੇ ਸ਼ਬਦਾਂ ਵਿੱਚ :
ਮਨਮੁਖ : ਜਿਸ ਦੀ ਪ੍ਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਵਿੱਚ ਕੋਈ ਰੁਚੀ ਨਹੀਂ ਕੇਵਲ ਆਪਣੇ ਆਪ ਵਿੱਚ ਹੈ ।

ਸਿੱਖ : ਪ੍ਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਅਤੇ ਗੁਰੂਆਂ ਵਿੱਚ ਵਿਸ਼ਵਾਸ ਕਰਦਾ ਹੈ, ਪਰ ਸਖ਼ਤ ਦ੍ਰਿੜਤਾ ਦੀ ਕਮੀ ਹੁੰਦੀ ਹੈ।

ਗੁਰਸਿੱਖ : ਗੁਰੂ ਨਾਲ ਇੱਕ ਵਾਅਦਾ ਕਰਦਾ ਹੈ ਭਾਵ ਸੰਤ ਦੀ ਅਗਵਾਈ ਵਿੱਚ ਆਵੇਗਾ ਅਤੇ ਹਰ ਉਸ ਗੱਲ ਤੇ ਅਮਲ ਕਰਦਾ ਹੈ ਜੋ ਗੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਕਹਿੰਦੀ ਹੈ ।

 ਗੁਰਮੁਖ : ਜਿਸਨੇ ਪੰਜ ਚੋਰਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਹਰਾ ਦਿੱਤਾ ਹੈ ਅਤੇ ਗਿਆਨ ਦਾ ਪ੍ਰਕਾਸ਼ ਹੋ ਗਿਆ ਹੈ ।
ਇਸ ਨੂੰ ਹੇਠਾਂ ਦਿੱਤੇ ਹੋਰ ਵਿਸਥਾਰ ਨਾਲ ਪੜੋ , ਜੋ ਕਿ ਇੱਕ ਚਾਨਣ ਰੂਹ ਦੁਆਰਾ ਲਿਖਿਆ ਗਿਆ ਹੈ, ਜੋ ਗੁਰਮੁਖ ਬਣ ਗਿਆ ਹੈ ਅਤੇ ਇਸ ਦੇ ਪੜਾਵਾਂ ਵਿਚੋਂ ਲੰਘ ਗਿਆ ਹੈ ।

Offline ਕਰਮਵੀਰ ਸਿੰਘ

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Re: A continuation of a coversation between Me and Nek Singh
« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2012, 11:16:54 AM »
No Veere.
Facts do matter.

Rabb ik aa, par ohnu poojan ala sara jagg aa.
Gyani insaan ohio aa jinu sahi tareeke da pata hove poojan da (urre main aavdi gal nahi kar reha).

Je facts and reasons da koi thaa nahi hunda bhakti wich, fir Gur Nanak Sahib ohna Baamana moore kheta nu paani kanu pauan lagge c ? Baaman suraj wal paani paa rahe c te Gur Nanak Sahib Ji ne kheta nu paani pauna shuru karta.
Jad baamana valo eh swaal puchya gya Gur Sahib Ji nu, tad ohna ne ehio akhya ke tussi suraj nu paani paake paani nu vyarth(waste) kar rahe ho, ghato ghat main kheta nu paani paa ke paani nu sahi kam layi ta vart reha.

The Moral was : devotion with a wrong or a meaningless way gives you nothing.

That's why facts and reasons are important to know.
thik e bai ji

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Re: A continuation of a coversation between Me and Nek Singh
« Reply #7 on: January 03, 2012, 11:36:19 AM »
IceColdRider da msg padki menu message of the day chete agia

---
Message of the Day
Stop these mockeries and do not talk, but live. Do not be anxious to save Sikhism. Rest assured that Sikhism can take care of itself. Your only anxiety should be to save yourself. ~ Bhagat Puran Singh Ji
--IcE PrInCeSs at January 3, 2012, 4:25 am
---

par bot koch sikhn nu v milia thanks Nek n IceColdRider

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Re: A continuation of a coversation between Me and Nek Singh
« Reply #8 on: January 03, 2012, 12:19:30 PM »
hanji 22 ji sat sri akal ..

first one ..

khalsa teh guru da sikh ikko aa ..
sikhi saroop ki hunda aa fe ..
mai odha sahejdhari sikh naam di term teh vishwas hi nhi krda ..
sahejdhari sikh di ki definition aa eh taan kise nu clear nhi aa.. but fe vi kende aa jo unshorn hair rakhda aa teh future ch amrit shakna chaunda aa oh sahejdhari aa..
par jis ne kes katal kite aa oh taan sahejdhari vi nhi aa ..

par guru de hukum mutabik ohi banda sikh akhwa sakda aa jo dassa guruyan teh guru granth sahib nu apne jeevan ch follow kare  and amrit shake..

amrit sevan is the first step of being a sikh...
oh tusi edah samjh layo ke jive oh admission process aa sikhi  de institute di ..


khalsa teh sikh dove ik aa ...

lok definition nu vakh vakh dass ke excuses dinde aa hor kuch nhi aa..





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Re: A continuation of a coversation between Me and Nek Singh
« Reply #9 on: January 04, 2012, 12:50:59 AM »

Sat Sri Akaal Ji,

Quote
Veere main thonnu ik example dena.
Je main roj nitnem kara, pakke routine naal Japji Sahib te Rehraas Sahib da paath v kara, Shabad Kirtan ch mann laake suna, te Gurdware ch neeve mann naal seva kara par kammi sirf ehio aa ke main kesdhari Sikh nahi aa ja kaho main kes katal kitte hoye aa, then will I be treated separately in the Court of Judgement in the after life ? Or will you be treated partially after doing the same things as I did but only one difference was that you were a Kesdhari Sikh.


22 ji wow nice to hear that.. tusi is cheej aage je na layo ... ke je mai eh kra teh je mai oh kra teh eh ho jayuga
oh ho jayuga.. tusi mann pakka karo teh judd jayo guru de naal ..
jina ku tusi likheya aa ehna hi k karo tusi je sache mann naal teh aape hi tusi amrit sanchar ch vishwas
 karan lag jana aa teh shak lena aa..
tusi hale after life bare na socho ... jo hun chal reha aa os nu sambho pehla ..
tusi ik wari ek wari guru da hukum samjh ke manno taan sahi tusi es life ch hi feel kar layoge ke what is the difference..
waheguru taan sarbhat da bhla krda aa pawe tusi usda hukum mano pawe na ..
bande nu aap vi adha raah chalnda penda aa adha raah rabb chalyuga ...


guru ji ne aap keha aa
Rehat Pyari Mujh Ko Sikh Pyara Nahin


so guru ji ne rehat nu follow krna must daseya aa..

Quote
Or is Baba Ji going to love you more than me just because you were a Amritdhari Sikh but our 'karam' or say deeds were the same ?


babaji loves evry human being .. gal tuahdi apni aa keh tusi ki krna chaunde ho apni life naal ..

Quote
Sikhs form 1.2% of the total Indian population of 120 Crore.Out of the total Sikh population, 1/4th must be Amritdharis.What about the rest of the 3/4th population ? They're not Amritdhari, so they're not Sikhs ? Where would you categorize THEM ?



amritdahri sikh vi jo rehat follow nhi krde oh sikh nhi han ..
so actually sikh yaan kahiye guru de sache sikh 1/4th toh vi ghat han.
rest 3/4th apne aap nu dhoka dinde aa sikh akhwa ke ..



Offline ਕਰਮਵੀਰ ਸਿੰਘ

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Re: A continuation of a coversation between Me and Nek Singh
« Reply #10 on: January 04, 2012, 01:25:25 AM »
Sat Sri Akaal Ji,


22 ji wow nice to hear that.. tusi is cheej aage je na layo ... ke je mai eh kra teh je mai oh kra teh eh ho jayuga
oh ho jayuga.. tusi mann pakka karo teh judd jayo guru de naal ..
jina ku tusi likheya aa ehna hi k karo tusi je sache mann naal teh aape hi tusi amrit sanchar ch vishwas
 karan lag jana aa teh shak lena aa..
tusi hale after life bare na socho ... jo hun chal reha aa os nu sambho pehla ..
tusi ik wari ek wari guru da hukum samjh ke manno taan sahi tusi es life ch hi feel kar layoge ke what is the difference..
waheguru taan sarbhat da bhla krda aa pawe tusi usda hukum mano pawe na ..
bande nu aap vi adha raah chalnda penda aa adha raah rabb chalyuga ...


guru ji ne aap keha aa
Rehat Pyari Mujh Ko Sikh Pyara Nahin


so guru ji ne rehat nu follow krna must daseya aa..


babaji loves evry human being .. gal tuahdi apni aa keh tusi ki krna chaunde ho apni life naal ..
 


amritdahri sikh vi jo rehat follow nhi krde oh sikh nhi han ..
so actually sikh yaan kahiye guru de sache sikh 1/4th toh vi ghat han.
rest 3/4th apne aap nu dhoka dinde aa sikh akhwa ke ..



hun ta kise swaal di gunjayash ni lagdi boht vadia likhya nek bai =D>

Offline Nek Singh

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Re: A continuation of a coversation between Me and Nek Singh
« Reply #11 on: January 04, 2012, 06:24:31 AM »
Amrit is not just a formality of keeping 5 Kakaars nor a symbol of extremism.
Taking Amrit has very deep spiritual reasons relating to being accepted at Akaal Purakh's Darbaar.
Somebody can say, that I do everything that Guru Sahib asks me to, but why do I need Amrit ?
For those who think that Amrit is not necessary for every Sikh, please refer to the following Hukams of Shri Guru Gobind Singh Jee :


"Rehni Rahe Soi Sikh Mera"
meaning Only those can be called my Sikhs, who follow the Sikh Rehat completely !


"Rehat Pyari Mujh ko, Sikh pyara Nahi" meaning Guru Sahib gives more importance to Rehat than anything.


"Jab Lag Khalsa Reho Niara Tab Lag Tej Diyo Mai Saara. Jab Eh Gahe Bipran Ki Reet, Mai Na Karo In Ki Parteet"
meaning Guru Gobind Singh Jee is willing to give his Khalsa all his powers if he/she follows the Sikh path loyally.
And Guru Sahib doesn't want to see those who refrain from following his Hukam !










Moreover, Guru Gobind Singh Jee was far-sighted and understood that after he leaves for his heavenly adobe,
 his Sikhs would need a code of conduct to bind them as one.
So, he gave us a uniform ie. 5 Kakaar, Nitnem Banis, Amrit Vele da Nem.
The reason for giving these was so that the Sikh corelates with his Sikhi daily and that his relation with Akaal Purakh is unperturbed.
Guru Sahib gave us a military like discipline of life,
so that we do not fall in the trap of Maaya and concentrate on Changi Kirat and Naam Japna.


The 5 Kakaar in themselves have got a message for the Sikh :
Kesh stands for acceptance of Akaal Purakh's given Saroop,
Kanga for keeping Kesh clean and untangled,
Kirpan for giving the Sikh the sense of self protection and that the Sikh has got to stand by the poor and needy,
 Karha to make the Sikh remind of Changi Kirat (whenever the Sikh raises his hand to do anything wrong,
the Karha worn on the right hand would remind him of Guru Ji's Hukam),
 and Kachera to restrict him/her from adultery.


Sikh Scholars have given more reasons why Amrit is necessary for every Sikh :


1) If you want to extract water from a handpump, you have to input some buckets of water first.
Similarly, Amrit Naam resides within us, but to extract this, we need to partake Amrit from Panj Pyare.
2) Guru Gobind Singh Jee gave us a unique identity due to which a Sikh can be recognized from far off.
Now, why do we shy away from this unique identity and want to be lost in the crowd !
3) Can a child, who has never formally taken admission into a school, ever boast of being a graduate?
Similarly, a person who has not taken Amrit, can he claim to be a Sikh? Taking Amrit is taking admission into Guru Nanak Sahib's school.
Till Guru Tegh Bahadur's time, Sikhs were baptized by giving 'Guru Sahib's Charan Pahul' .
 But Guru Gobind Singh Jee changed the process of baptizing to 'Khande Baate di Pahul'.
The reason was because Guru Sahib knew that after him, there won't be a Deh-Guru so he gave this power to Panj Pyaare. Hence to conclude,
if any individual wants to be called a Sikh, taking Amrit is unquestionably a must !

...

Sri Akaal Veer Ji,

Quote
#1 I wasn't asking you whether I should do this or that.


sorry for that
will take care of it from now on.

Quote
#2 I just gave an example of two people to you, who do the same things but the only difference is that one is without the 'rehat' and the other one has maintained full rehat.

Now looking at the example, what role does the 'rehat' play ?
We all know that all men are created equal, the lord loves everyone irrespective of who or she is, it is understood.


But keeping the 'rehat' has what connection with spiritualism ?
This is what my question is which you didn't happen to understand well.




edha anwser uper post ch mil gya huna tuhanu



Quote
My humble request to you is that please understand what am I exactly asking you to tell.
I want to know your understanding over this.
Later I would share my understanding of why to keep rehat.

I think that you didn't read my comment really well on the prev voting topic of sardar and mona, because if you did then you would have had some idea about my understanding over it.
I guess you overlooked that part and didn't really recognize the kind of person I am and the view point I tried sharing about the rehat in brief.

I am not trying to put this forth in a negative way.


you tried justifying trimming beard .. by saying it is ok to have it like that ..


koi adhvichkar da raah nhi aa bro ..


yaan taan pure guru wale bano nhi taan accept karo ..
but justify karna guru de hukum de kilaf jaan de brabar aa

Quote
This is atleast the only point of yours that I agree over.
When Gur Gobind Singh Ji was questioned by his followers that why did he sacrfice all his sons, then he replied back with smile on his face saying "chaar vaare ta jeevit kitte kayi hazaar".
Baba Ji ne kayi hazaar hi kanu akhya ? Kayi lakh ja kayi crore kanu ni akhya ?
Kyunki ohna nu v pata c ke ohna asli followers hayi hazaar hi ne bas.


sache sikh sachi ghat ne ..

But do think over what I have asked.

See you.

« Last Edit: January 04, 2012, 06:38:00 AM by ~ ਨੇਕ ਸਿੰਘ ~ »

Offline Pav Dhillon

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Re: Sikhism: discussion
« Reply #12 on: January 04, 2012, 05:05:31 PM »
@ Pawn Jatt :

Sat Sri Akaal bai !
Kida.

Yaar tu ta bada gyani banda, tainu ta poori pehchaan aa asli Sikh di.Dooro hi pehchaan lainda.Thoda gyan sanu v dede, assi agyaniya nu.

Naale reha jwaab tere swaal da, I didn't actually make any remarks over any particular community or religion.I wanted to add Muslim and Christian as well along with Hindu, but I don't know why I didn't do so.May be I should've done that so that you wouldn't have felt that I made any "remarks" towards a particular religion.

Because according to Nek Singh being a cut serd I am not a Sikh, so it was just a way to put forth my question to Nek Singh as in "what am I then ?"..."A Hindu, a Muslim, a Christain or a Human?" Humans ta assi saare aa, phir ki aa ?

Par eho ja sawaal sirf tu hi kanu pucheya ? Hor kise ne kanu nahi pucheya ?
Kyunki shayd tera level of understanding ghat aa.Hun ik vaari phir read karke vekhi phir exactly samaj aa jana ke main ki puchya c.

Gal rahi hun Mandir di.Eh v sun la phir.
Je koi(Hindu sajjan) mainu apne ghare sadhe kise function ja ritual te, phir ta main matha tekanga kyunki kise ne mainu invite kita hoya ta odiya bhavnava nu thes na pauchan eh mera farz aa.I would never want to hurt ANYBODY'S religious sentiments so I would simply do it.
Par main apni marzi naalo mandir jaake matha kanu teka ? Ghanti waja ke Mandir ch jaake pathar di moorti agge matha kanu teka main ? Pathar di moorti ch rabb baitha aa ? Gur Sahib ne aap sanu mana kita moorti poojan layi.
Eda jwaab mainu hun TU de.
Hindu praah apne aunde aa Gurdware ch kyunki othe Gur Garnth Sahib Ji biraajmaan ne, ohna de darshan karan te Gurbani cho kuj Sikh ke jaan, es layi.Naale Gurdware ch saare barabbar aa, assi dilo sab nu welcome karde aa bhave kise v mazhab to hon.

Baaki gal rahi hawa karan di hun.
Bai main ta koi hawa huwa karda nahi, mainu koi shaunk nahi.
Bande(je singers di gak kariye) di mentality te soch vaare ode lyrics to hi pata chal janda.Odi soch kis disha ch daurh rahi aa, ode khoparh ch keho jiya galla chaldiya oh sab kuj ode lyrics to hi pata chalda.
Gurdas Maan de gaane koi sune ta ehio kahuga ke eh banda gyani aa, siyana banda ehnu samaj aa zindagi di, ehdi matt changi aa naale dooje v sikhde aa.
Hun Garry Sandhu de gaane sun la bai.Jeda main link kita c ohio sun la.
Jokera vang chaala maari janda te fukrebaazi karda, puthi matt deyi jaana hora nu v,lol.
Hun das main ehnu siyana banda kava ja bewkoof ?


...


Sas ri kal

Menu te ult lagda, sikhi bare jankari te tenu hi ah bas, bakki te ewii bas ture firde.

If you don't call them remarks, what do you call them?? The way you wrote the whole thing, it seemed like there's something wrong with worshiping Dieties. Would you like it if a hindu said to you: "Oh I don't bow down to books, eh te bas sikh karde ah". That just shows the "level of understanding" of a person, not knowing anything about the religion and just making dumb comments. Just because you belong to sikhism, that doesn't mean you are superior than everyone out there. All the religions have a same meaning, that is to bring everyone together, but people do the opposite and fight over religions. Don't make any stupid comments about any religion if you don't know anything about it. 

What nek signh bhaji said is correct. You are not a true sikh, but sikhism welcomes everyone. I don't think you read what I said, I eye balled most of the replies. Sawal eh mein ta pushaya, kyo ki tu jo Hindu de samne add kita. It wasn't needed.

Hun mandir di gal, fer ta eh keha ja sakda ki hora religiona di tu bil kul respect ni karda te bas dil rakhan lye matha tek du ga bas. Wapis mein fer appni gal te, fer ohi pathar di moorti nu matha tekan wali gal. There's nothing wrong with it. Je tenu koi hindu ehi gal kawe Guru Granth Sahib bare?? Oh te gurdware jande ah. Je oh sikh sakde kush sadde religion toh fer asi ni kush sakde ohna di religion toh???


Jada kar ajj kal singers gane likh de nahi, sirf gaunde ah, te tusi bas writer di soch judge kar rahe ho. Dev thrikawale warge writers hai ni hun. Hun je mein utthhh ke chamkile da gana gaa dita, es da matlab meri soch puthi hogi???

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Re: Sikhism: discussion
« Reply #13 on: January 05, 2012, 07:38:42 AM »
Menu nahi pta if I should reply here, but I have found something on the net and I jst loved it - I hope this is helpful  :smile:

______________________________________________________________________________________________________

Keeping kesh is a commitment that one makes when one takes Amrit. If you have not taken Amrit yet, whether or not you keep your hair is between you and your Guru.
A Sikh is one who relates to the Siri Guru Granth Sahib as a Guru and practices what the Guru teaches. This is a life-long process.
None of us start at the finish line. So - if your take the Words of the Siri Guru Granth Sahib as your Guru and Guide in life and do your best to live those words unto infinity, to make them a practical reality - that is what is required for being a Sikh.
When your soul is ready to take Amrit and keep your hair, it will tell you.
Until then, mediate on the words of the Guru, take them into your heart and live them to the best of your ability. In this way, you shall be a true Sikh of the Guru.

I know that many people out there will disagree with this. I understand it.
But I just have to believe that, in the time of the Gurus, there were many people who benefited from the Gurus' teachings, and eventually made the full commitment -
but that the Gurus were patient with them.
If this was true then, it is true now. One day, as per the instructions of the Guru, you will keep your hair.
But you have to be ready to do it and to give you the strength to make that choice, have the Siri Guru Granth Sahib as your Guide and meditate on those Words.
It will answer every question and solve every problem.

- GPK
« Last Edit: January 05, 2012, 08:21:26 AM by Gurseerat Kaur »

Offline ਕਰਮਵੀਰ ਸਿੰਘ

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Re: Sikhism: discussion
« Reply #14 on: January 05, 2012, 07:42:17 AM »
Menu nahi pta if I should reply here, but I have found something on the net and I jst loved it - I hope this is helpful  :smile:

______________________________________________________________________________________________________

Keeping kesh is a commitment that one makes when one takes Amrit. If you have not taken Amrit yet, whether or not you keep your hair is between you and your Guru.
A Sikh is one who relates to the Siri Guru Granth Sahib as a Guru and practices what the Guru teaches. This is a life-long process.
None of us start at the finish line. So - if your take the Words of the Siri Guru Granth Sahib as your Guru and Guide in life and do your best to live those words unto infinity, to make them a practical reality - that is what is required for being a Sikh.
When your soul is ready to take Amrit and keep your hair, it will tell you.
Until then, mediate on the words of the Guru, take them into your heart and live them to the best of your ability. In this way, you shall be a true Sikh of the Guru.

I know that many people out there will disagree with this. I understand it.
But I just have to believe that, in the time of the Gurus, there were many people who benefited from the Gurus' teachings, and eventually made the full commitment -
but that the Gurus were patient with them.
If this was true then, it is true now. One day, as per the instructions of the Guru, you will keep your hair.
But you have to be ready to do it and to give you the strength to make that choice, have the Siri Guru Granth Sahib as your Guide and meditate on those Words.
It will answer every question and solve every problem.

- GPK

best answer

Offline Nek Singh

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Re: Sikhism: discussion
« Reply #15 on: January 05, 2012, 12:24:59 PM »
but why do people cut hair.
je tuahde parents ne rakhe aa ..
teh tuahdi life ch edah da ki incident hoya ke tusi baal kta laye.
par je parents ne hi rakhe aa teh vakhri gal aa..
then you wont keep it unless you realize the importance of keeping it .




gal saaf eh aa keh .. pawe koi kina vi jor lawe ..
decision bande ne odho hi lena aa jado ohnu andhro realize hunda aa
otherwise jo hai justify kri jana aa,
Quote


This is a life-long process.[/color][/size]None of us start at the finish line.[/b][/size][/color]



amrit dhari banana is not finish line . It is the starting point .


baki pichel post ch reason dase aa keh kyn jaroori aa amrit shakna sikh hon layi












 

Offline Gurpinder Mand

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Re: Sikhism: discussion
« Reply #16 on: January 05, 2012, 02:54:41 PM »
Quote
SGPC have made it very clear as under.

- Members of the SGPC executive, led by its president Avtar Singh, today laid down the definition of a Sehajdhari Sikh.

Sticking to the definition given in the Sikh Gurdwara Act 1925, the committee members have stated that Sehajdhari Sikhs are those who are born in non-Sikh families, but follow the tenets of Sikhism. A Sehajdhari Sikh is thus a non-Sikh who performs ceremonies according to Sikh rites; who does not use tobacco, does not consume halal meat in any form; who is not a “patit” and who recites the mulmantra of Guru Granth Sahib.

In the resolution passed during a meeting held this evening, the SGPC pointed out that the definition of Sehajdhari given in the Section 2 (10-A) of the Gurdwara Act states that the word “sehajdhari” consists of two words “sehaj” (slowly) and “dhari” (adopt a religious path) and hence these are those novices who slowly move on the path of Sikhism to adopt its doctrine, ethics and tenets.

A Sehajdhari, therefore, is one who has entered the path of Sikhism and he will continue to be a Sehajdhari Sikh till he fully accepts the moral and spiritual vows of Sikhism, to be called a practicing Sikh. The SGPC resolution also made it clear that when a Sehajdhari Sikh becomes a keshdhari Sikh, but he chooses to trim his body hair, he will not be a Sehajdhari Sikh. Similarly, if a person born into a Sikh family (and is a Sikh), but chooses to disrespect his keshdhari roop he will not turn into a Sehajdhari Sikh but become a “patit”.

So the disrespect to kesh makes a person born into a Sikh family a PATIT. If these persons cannot respect their identity, they have no right for any

voting rights in SGPC. It is as simple as that.

 
moral
 
ik sehajdhari sikh and  vaal ni katwa sakda agar oh sikh family nu belong karda.

jae sehajdhari ni katwa sakda tae sikh kida katawa sakda?
 
« Last Edit: January 05, 2012, 03:03:20 PM by Gurpinder Mand »

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Re: Sikhism: discussion
« Reply #17 on: January 05, 2012, 04:49:11 PM »
Rab Alllah God Buddha Guru

Different name , Aim is the same

Offline Pav Dhillon

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Re: Sikhism: discussion
« Reply #18 on: January 06, 2012, 11:26:48 AM »
@ Pawan Jatt :

Gyani Sahab, pehla SSA ta kehna sikh lavo.
"Sat Sri Akaal" hunda, "Sas ri kal" nahi.

Sat Sri Akaal Veere tainu te saare readers nu :

Pai Sahab vekho, shayd thonnu understanding the problem aa, gal thonnu ik vaari ch samaj hi nahi aundi.
Main vaar vaar explainations dena nahi chaunde oh v os gal de layi jithe main galt kise vaare(religion) keha hi nahi.

They were not remarks and it has been well explained above.Any sensible person after reading it will understand what exactly it meant.

Naale mainu Hindua to ki prob ho sakdi ? Assi aap Hindua to hi aaye aa.
Hindua nu Hindu naam v Mughala to hi mileya.Chalo es topic te main kuj nahi kehna.

Baaki tu mainu keh reha ke main loka da dil rakhan layi moortiya nu matha tek laina.
Ede ch galt ki aa ? Main kise de ghar jaake odiya bhavnava nu thes kanu pauchava ? Main apni marzi naalo ta janda nahi.Par kise ne mainu sadheya oda maan rakhna mera farz nahi ?
Moorti hai ki pehla ta eh das ? Pathar di moorti nu rabb mannke ode moore matha tekna ta apna bhulekha aa, te eh gal sanu sadde Gurua ne v dassi.
Es gal di khilafat ta tu  kar reha, ke moorti poojan ch galt ki aa ?

Main ta respect karda saare dharma di.Respect karan da eh matlab thodi aa ke akh bandh karke poojan lag jao bajo kuj jaane soche.Respect karda main sare dharma di taahi apne friends naal Mandir v chala janda je oh laike jana chaunde hon.Par apni marzi naalo nahi janda bas.
Main Christianity ch kaafi vishvaas rakhda te kaafi kuj collect karda rehna Christianity cho.Christianity has so many things similar with Sikhism, so it does attract my attention to it.I try learning from Hindus as well, from Muslims too.
Moorti nu matha tek ke main ki sakda ?
Naale, do you not know the difference in a Holy Book and a Satue ?
Assi, Gur Granth Sahib agge matha kanu tekde aa ? Assi Quraan agge kanu matha tekde aa ? Because they enlighten us.Oh rabb di bani aa, that's why.

Putha, dil rakhan ali gal ta tu kar reha.
Tu ta darke moorti poojan ch jakeen kar reha taake koi Hindu Guru Granth Sahib vaare na kuj keh deve.
Main ta fir kise kaaran karke nahi manda, par tu ta dar de maare mann reha.Andaro ta tainu v pata ke pathar di moorti koi v bana sakda par oh rabb ta ban jauga nahi.Eh ta bas apne mann nu tassalli den ali gal ho gayi.
Fir Sikh panth kanu chalaya gaya ?

Fark bas inna aa ke tu moorti poojan nu na mannan layi hor koi changa reason de hi nahi sakda, bas darda aa ke koi Hindu na kuj bol deve.
Naale kine k Hindu aunde aa Gurdwareya ch ? Bot ghat, oh v sirf ohi jinna nu pata hunda Sikhi vaare.


Hun eh meri galti aa ?
Jad tu pooriya galla chaj naal parhiya hi nahi fir apni keemti raaye kanu deyi janda ?
Jaa ta poori gal parhan da sabar rakho, samjho agla banda ki keh reha phir jwaab devo akkal naal, naake khunnas wich.

When did I even say that I'm a pure Sikh.
Yes, I am a Sikh but not a Khalsa.
According to Nek Singh, a Sikh and a Khalsa are the same to which I disagree.
I will give an explaination to my disagreement later on.

"Hanji bil kul sahi gal, Sabb di life wich edda da point aunda, jado sabb sikh bann jande ne. Saari umar te koi koi mona rehnda."

Eh hanji hanji ki kari janda tu ?
Tu dhyaan naal parhda v aa ke nahi ?
Os comment ch Nek Singh ne keval kurriya vaare hi keha c, mundeya vaare nahi.
Kurriya de vaal already lamme hunde aa te bas thalleo halki cutting kara laindiya ja hadho hadho 5-7 inch.Over all ohna de vaal lamme hi hunde aa, bot hi ghat hundiya jerhiya boy-cut kara laindiya hon.Example - Kiran Bedi.
Nek Singh ne ik suggestion ditta c ke jad kurriya da shaunk poora ho jave ta baad ch eh step lai sakdiya ne.
Munde ta ajjakl ganje hoyi phirde Sardara de.
Ganje kanu hunde aa ? lol...
Mainu ta ulti aundi vekh ke Gurdwareya ch ganje mone sardara nu vekh ke.
Naale ajeeb jeha hulliya banaya hunda, ajeed style di daarhiya kat lainde jida kise ne daarhi di bich bich tractor chalaya hove.Vekh ke ta hassa hi aunda phir.Insaan lagde hi nahi kise passe to, Sardar di gal ta door.Agle vekhan ale v vekh hasde aa.
Chalo mone hi sahi, par ghato ghato kuj ta vaal rakh lavo, kuj ta sharam honi chaidi.
Hun tainu lagda ke eho je mone waps Sardar ban sakde aa, ja eho je loka ch oh andaro feeling aundi hovegi ke kade waps Sardar banan.
Apne ik PJ de munde da example laila, shreef jatt kang.Kehnda c ke ohne ta hamesha mona hi rehna, bhave koi kuj v kahe.

Kuj bolan to pehla soch leya kar.

Main "saare' singers vaare keha v kad.Main ta ohna vaare kehnda c jerhe apne khayaala nu gaane ch paake gaunde aa.Garry Sandhu apne gaane aap nahi likhda ? Taahio ohda example ditta c.

Gaun nu ta koi kise da gaa lave, koi harz thodi aa ehde ch.It's fine.
But we're obviously fans of those artists, jina diya galla sanu pasand hove, ja assi ohna diya galla to influence ho jaan(bhave puthi matt hove ja siddhi), ja saddi apni soch v ohna naal mildi hove.Only then you become a fan of a particularr artists, and at times people start associating themselves with those singers.Obviously you'll be listening to a lotta singers and might be liking them as well, par jaroori nahi ke tu ohna da fan hi hovega.

Hun bai thande dimaag naal read kari, samjhi phir reply kari.Khunnas ch na kari reply.

Sas ri Kal, Sas si kal, Sat Sri Akaal, gal ekko hi ah. Bande nu samaj auni chai di bas. Tohanu samaj aggi naa??? Bas ehna bohat ah. Nale ehne josh wich ni aye da.

Mein wi bar bar appne app nu repeat nahi karna chaunda jo mein phela likh chukka. Hun mein bas ah likhna.

Eh kade na socho ki tohada dharam kinne ke uchaa wa. Es karke hi sariya dharma uttey laraiya hundia ne. Eh socho ki tusi hora nu ki sikhya de sakde ho appne dharam rahi te ki sikh sakde ho hora dharma toh. Rabb te kise cheez ch wi waas sakda hai. Bas rab nu poojan de wakhre wakhre tareeke ne har dharam de. Koi muurti pooj da te koi kush. Es karke tusi neeme hi ho chale kise muurti murrey chukk ke. Kyo ki oh wi rabb hi ah kise religion da, te eh soch ke chukk jao ki tusi rabb de murrey chukk rahe ho. Nale tusi lokka di tension ghat lawo. Karan deo jo karde lokki. Appe kise din samaj jann ge.

Gal kiti jawe singers bare, es modern jamane wich taa singers bas entertainment bann ke reh gai ne, keha jaa sakda  gaunde ghat ah te nachar jada bann ge ne. Singers toh kush sikhan wali te gal hi ni rahi ajj kal. Je ehne hi buree lagde garry sandhu warge singers, fer ta ohna di koi album na buy kare. Par ajj kal chalda hi eh kush ah, looka nu bas entertainment jada pasand ah kush sikhan di jaga. Vaise meri soch wich singer da kam hunda ek wadiya message dena public nu jis toh lokk kush sikh sakan. Manak sabb. Har gane wich koi na koi message ah. Hun je gal kiti jawe Chamkile di, oh siga ek bohat hi talented singer te entertainer, par os ne koi wadia message ni deliver kita appne ganaya rahi, par fer wi oh manak sabb, gurdas mann te shinde nalo jada popular ho gaya.

Offline Rana Saab

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Re: Sikhism: discussion
« Reply #19 on: January 06, 2012, 11:53:50 AM »
Sas ri Kal, Sas si kal, Sat Sri Akaal, gal ekko hi ah. Bande nu samaj auni chai di bas. Tohanu samaj aggi naa???[/color] Bas ehna bohat ah. Nale ehne josh wich ni aye da.
yaar pawan kinaa sounaa topic aa tey kiniyaan souniyaan galla kar rey ne sare jida da eh topic ah har bandaa souch samjh ke gall kar reya tey tu souch samjh ke pelah lafz e jairaa ke pehchan ah sab de jida asi salam tey kaii namaste kainde aa jay asi salam de thaan salm likh daiee tey ki changa lagoo bas veer tu man lay eh lafz tere pehchan aa ainuu saii likh liyaa kar thxx tey mind na kareya kar na e doujiyaa nu keh ke samjh tey aa e jandi aa bas eidhaa vi likh iya karoo sab nu samjhaa ke saii likhyaan karoo thx

 

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