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Offline Jhanda_Amli

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Sikh Extremist is on a Rise: Dosanjh (B.C. MP)
« on: April 22, 2010, 05:21:02 PM »
A British Columbia MP taking on CBC recently

TALK:

http://www.cbc.ca/video/#/News/ID=1474691641


Agree or Not agree?


- I agree, as most of the talk (about Khalistan) these days is decieving the Sikh Youth!!

And all the action these days about fight in a temple is making worse for Us(all those who is seeking future in a multicultural nation)

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Sikh Extremist is on a Rise: Dosanjh (B.C. MP)
« on: April 22, 2010, 05:21:02 PM »

Offline Grenade Singh

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Re: Sikh Extremist is on a Rise: Dosanjh (B.C. MP)
« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2010, 06:51:46 PM »
Alright, let's have this discussion.

Point 1: "Some sikhs glorify violence" (tag line under the video)
I think that is a misstatement, particularly because it's not that Sikhs glorify violence in of itself, it is the revolution that requires violence to happen. Sikhs don't encourage violence; what they do encourage is to stand up for what you believe and if that standing up requires the use of violence, then don't shy away.

Point 2: Dosanjh makes the point that MPs are saying they will only go to the parade if the posters of "terrorists" are not put up, but those same posters are put up in the gurdwaras and we don't do anything about it.
- For one, there is something called freedom of speech. If a person wants to put Hitler's picture in their living room, then they can (at least in the US, that's how it works). But of course putting objectionable content in public can be governed by government.
- The other point I want to make is we put Shaheed Bhai Taru Singh's picture in gurdwaras where his head (khopdi) is getting cut off. He was martyred for not changing his religion. Are we wrong to put his picture in the Gurdwara? In public places? That picture shows "violence". So now I'll take that same example to Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale. Are we wrong in putting his picture up in the gurdwara if a significant amount of people believe that he fought for us? I see a lot of people becoming experts on this subject without reading anything about the man, the situation and the events.

PS: Jhande, I would recommend that you read up on subjects, especially those that you want to criticize publicly. I wanted to tell you this before in the topic about 1984, where you expressed that Sikhs haven't been discriminated against in India. But I never got to respond there. It is one thing to hold an opinion and it is another to use that opinion as a bias to support other statements. I do not have any personal conflict with you, I just wanted to state some of my opinions. You are more than welcome to respond.

Offline Kudrat Kaur

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Re: Sikh Extremist is on a Rise: Dosanjh (B.C. MP)
« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2010, 07:14:44 PM »
This is very sensitive issue I think whatever we will discuss will lead to nowhere....
In my opinion, there is need to be careful from beware of those politicians who use this isseue for their personnal benefits..
I beleive in Naam Japo, Kirat Karo te Wand ke chako..vadu appa sochida nai ihna teena cheeja nu follow karke hi BaBaji di bahut mehr hai...
If there is question of pictures I think all people have their freedon to put any picture ...but picture should depict some constructive message for people but not a destructive one...I think this is not what our Guruji wantd..


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Re: Sikh Extremist is on a Rise: Dosanjh (B.C. MP)
« Reply #3 on: April 22, 2010, 08:09:47 PM »
im neutral

i dont support khalistan but im not against it eithier....

around 1930 vich jadon bhagat Singh, kartar Singh and kafi hor karainti-karian ne jadon revolution start kitia c ta lokh ohna te v hasde hunde c te ohna nu negatively lennde c ...k eh 4 jawan munde kitho azadi liye paon gye....1947 takk kise nu ass ni c k azadi mill jawe gyi sirf ganti de bandian nu chad k.


but you never know....eh lokh v kamjaab ho jaan khalistan bannon vich...so i dont discourage them or i oppose their ideas.

but mein ehna di favour is liyi ni karda kyun k 1947 vich punjab de 2 hisse ho gye...te j hun khalistan bannain ta v 2 ho janne a...cuz half of sikhs belive in khalistan and other half don't.
but j khalistan bann jawe ga ta o best country howe gyi rahen liyi..te appa sare othe move howa gye....and im pretty sure k 5 saala de vich vich ohna ne khalistan punjab nu Canada-Austraila warga banna denna.


per meinu pata j inj hoyia ta volience howega..and odhe vich lakha-crore lokh saheed honn gye...


ajje ta pichla khoon and zakham ni sukhe 1984 de.....

-Amritsar de attack vich hazara bekasoor lokha de mout.

- 1984 de riots, mawa de sahmne putt tire paa k mare gye, gharwalian and bachian de sahmne ohna diyian gharwalian  and mawa di shareamm vich bazara izzat lutti.


- te murke punjab vich babar khalsa nu suppress kar liyi...apne hi punjabi sikh police walian ne apne hi bekasoor lokha nu jothe mukablian vich marian

and babar khalsa ch kayi paise kamon and lokha nu maran da shonk pura karn liye babar khalsa de member bann k apnian hi mawa dheeyian de putter and suhagh mar mukhayeee....


akhir vich app soach lao ki tusi eh sab kujh dubara dekhna chawo gye...ki tusi apne bachian/family nu isda sikaar hunde vekjhna chawo gye...

Offline Jhanda_Amli

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Re: Sikh Extremist is on a Rise: Dosanjh (B.C. MP)
« Reply #4 on: April 22, 2010, 08:39:31 PM »
Bro lets just talk about Canada as most of the extermist Talk is going is regarding Canada
 
News Read - Air India Flight leaving from Canada Blown away in Mid Air by Sikh Extermist group. (Babar Khalsa) killing 329 Ppl with no survivors.
Now the only problem I have is the word "Sikh" used there. And if I am a Sikh I dont want to support this .. Blowing a fight from Canada in mid Air. As I myself as a Sikh Never learned that Killing someone 15000 Km away for the act happened in Amritsar is "Justice".
(Ex - A muslim Group Blew up Twin Towers everyone who support that act is Terriorist, even when in there own terms they are Saving Islam)

Second Point 
Quote
- For one, there is something called freedom of speech. If a person wants to put Hitler's picture in their living room, then they can (at least in the US, that's how it works). But of course putting objectionable content in public can be governed by government.

GuruGhar is Noones Living room, till you start treating as Business. If you Follow Jarnail Singh Keep his picture at Home rather than the Gurughar as Gurughar is to follow the Guru- Shri Guru Granth Sahib ji.

Quote
- The other point I want to make is we put Shaheed Bhai Taru Singh's picture in gurdwaras where his head (khopdi) is getting cut off. He was martyred for not changing his religion. Are we wrong to put his picture in the Gurdwara? In public places? That picture shows "violence". So now I'll take that same example to Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale. Are we wrong in putting his picture up in the gurdwara if a significant amount of people believe that he fought for us? I see a lot of people becoming experts on this subject without reading anything about the man, the situation and the events.

Jarnail Singh Picture is not the only one in Gurughar. There are Millions on pictures of “unknown people” who are referred as Matyrs. And I don’t think every one of them is a Sant enough that they earned a respect of having there picture in a Gurughar, Is it? (You might have also heard of accidents when Extermist Groups Beheaded another sikh as he was not wearing a turbine - Happened in my own Village during the roits).. OK Do one thing, Go to the Gurughar and start counting the Pictures. The Sikh Matyrs number will defeat number of Sikh Guru Picture...Why? (why the guru effort is defeated against 1984) And then you put all of them on the Sikh Parade. Why? ...
Where is the Freedom of Speech for the one who "don’t" follow them. Why they are not Listened too, even when there number is higher? - Do this mean they are not allowed in the prade? .... I Take this as Imposing.... the Sikh parade should be fair and according to what the Guru has Set up rather than what a bunch of people think (who themselves are fighting inside the sikh Temples to get the leadership of the Gurughar, ruining Sikh Image).

Appreciating there effort is one thing, Treating them like a Sikh Guru is a different thing.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2010, 09:04:39 PM by Jhanda Amli »

Offline Grenade Singh

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Re: Sikh Extremist is on a Rise: Dosanjh (B.C. MP)
« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2010, 09:32:40 PM »
Bro lets just talk about Canada as most of the extermist Talk is going is regarding Canada
 
News Read - Air India Flight leaving from Canada Blown away in Mid Air by Sikh Extermist group. (Babar Khalsa) killing 329 Ppl with no survivors.
Now the only problem I have is the word "Sikh" used there. And if I am a Sikh I dont want to support this .. Blowing a fight from Canada in mid Air. As I myself as a Sikh Never learned that Killing someone 15000 Km away for the act happened in Amritsar is "Justice".
(Ex - A muslim Group Blew up Twin Towers everyone who support that act is Terriorist, even when in there own terms they are Saving Islam)

Whoever blew up innocent passengers in the Air India flight is a terrorist, no doubt. But from what I've read, nobody was ever convicted in Canadian courts. I don't know if their verdicts were biased, that's up for discussion (but unfortunately I don't know much about this subject). Whoever it may be, people of whatever faith (Sikh or anyone else) that committed this act, they were cowards and terrorists, I'll point that out. A Guru's Khalsa cannot attack an innocent.


Second Point 
GuruGhar is Noones Living room, till you start treating as Business. If you Follow Jarnail Singh Keep his picture at Home rather than the Gurughar as Gurughar is to follow the Guru- Shri Guru Granth Sahib ji.

Jarnail Singh Picture is not the only one in Gurughar. There are Millions on pictures of “unknown people” who are referred as Matyrs. And I don’t think every one of them is a Sant enough that they earned a respect of having there picture in a Gurughar, Is it? (You might have also heard of accidents when Extermist Groups Beheaded another sikh as he was not wearing a turbine - Happened in my own Village during the roits).. OK Do one thing, Go to the Gurughar and start counting the Pictures. The Sikh Matyrs number will defeat number of Sikh Guru Picture...Why? (why the guru effort is defeated against 1984) And then you put all of them on the Sikh Parade. Why? ...

The reason their pictures are put up again and again is because people deny this ever happened. It's like saying why do Jews put up more pictures of Holocaust victims than of Moses (their prophet). Well, the reason is that they don't want to forget and they want their voice louder than the holocaust-deniers (i.e. people who say the Holocaust never happened). The same reason can be applied here. The more people try to suppress the reality and what has happened to the Sikhs, the more the Sikhs want to bring it to their attention. I think it is in tune with their message to Never Forget 1984, because 1984 has taught a lesson to Sikhs that Indira Gandhi wanted to teach.

Yes, I've heard of extremist groups beheading sikhs/hindus/etc for various reasons. And those extremists cannot be Sikhs, because again a person that attacks innocent cannot be a Sikh, it disqualifies their being Sikhs. I'm not defending these wrong-doer extremists at all. I'm only defending of personalities that I've studied (with my small mind). I'm no journalist, I may have been misled by the books I've read, but I've made the effort to identify some facts and what those facts tell me is that the Indian government is not a saint.

Where is the Freedom of Speech for the one who "don’t" follow them. Why they are not Listened too, even when there number is higher? - Do this mean they are not allowed in the prade? .... I Take this as Imposing.... the Sikh parade should be fair and according to what the Guru has Set up rather than what a bunch of people think (who themselves are fighting inside the sikh Temples to get the leadership of the Gurughar, ruining Sikh Image).

Appreciating there effort is one thing, Treating them like a Sikh Guru is a different thing.

Everybody has freedom of speech; nothing legally stops a person from carrying a picture of Indira Gandhi throughout the parade. Anybody can do it legally. Although they may face ridicule from the people there, but that is besides the point, because we're talking about how freedom of speech works here.

Ideally, the parades should be fair. I think there needs to be either a committee like SGPC that governs such parades that represent Sikh faith, so that we may send a clear message about what we stand for.

Nobody is treating Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale or any other martyr as a Guru. Nobody bows in front of them. People salute their courage to stand up to the Indian government. This goes with my first point, that the more people try to suppress that there was ever a figure called Bhindranwale, the more you'll see his posters.



This is very sensitive issue I think whatever we will discuss will lead to nowhere....
In my opinion, there is need to be careful from beware of those politicians who use this isseue for their personnal benefits..
I beleive in Naam Japo, Kirat Karo te Wand ke chako..vadu appa sochida nai ihna teena cheeja nu follow karke hi BaBaji di bahut mehr hai...
If there is question of pictures I think all people have their freedon to put any picture ...but picture should depict some constructive message for people but not a destructive one...I think this is not what our Guruji wantd..
The point of my discussion was to understand how Jhanda thinks and explain to him how I think. I try to avoid making judgements as less as I can, but sometimes once in a while I like to express myself. I also believe that sending a positive/constructive message is a very good idea. Thank you for your neutral message, I really appreciate it.

Offline TheStig

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Re: Sikh Extremist is on a Rise: Dosanjh (B.C. MP)
« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2010, 10:19:01 PM »
I wasn't even born till 1986 So I can't realy conclude anything about riots in 1984 .
Simple thing, Get interview of some Sikhs, some of them will support khalistan idea and Some will oppose and the statments the both groups make are both different to each other.
I would say " I don't wana support something I don't see in reality"

Baaki that is realy sad , Air India te waar karke bande maran naal ki mil jana.
As Jhanda said about muslims image ,same its going to be for Sikh's . Is that what Guru Nanak Dev ji wanted?
If someone narrated the story of 1984 in positive way you will belive it and same for negative. So its just the way people make you believe their words.

Hun pakistan de naal kinni ladayia hoia India di,fer vi aman shaanti banayi jande aa,kyun? pagal aa 100 crore loki india de? ya sare eh kehnde aa ki pakistan nu uda dao.
As Kudrat ji said be constructive not destructive
Keha suneya maaf

Offline Jhanda_Amli

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Re: Sikh Extremist is on a Rise: Dosanjh (B.C. MP)
« Reply #7 on: April 22, 2010, 10:34:35 PM »
All About Air India Fight Bombing (even though Wiki is not the best source every source to the article is credited.. Claiming Sikh Group as Main Suspect) - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_India_Flight_182

- This is the latest Update about the Bombing, report due coming June (and Main convicts are Sikhs) - http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/british-columbia/decades-after-air-india-victims-families-to-finally-get-some-answers/article1543846/

Now Think about what if Khalistan Followers - Babbar Khalsa (as wiki Says) are found to behind the attack) .. How would you Explain a White Guy/ Black Guy that the Sikh who did that are Coward's.. Sadde waste teh Canada Hell ho geyye na.. Ke Sikh are Killer of Innocent people and Believe when This news come you will see lot happening.. Killing Sikh Image .. And these fights for leadership in Temples are not helping either ... How Can I Support it?
 
In recent Parade at Viasakhi in BC Global posted this Image in the Newspaper and under the Image it reads:
Quote
The controversial float in the 2010 Surrey's Vaisakhi parade, celebrating dead leaders as martyrs of the separatist Khalistan movement, including groups like the Babbar Khalsa(Air India Bombing), banned in Canada as a terrorist group, Saturday, April 17, 2010.

Now How would you explain the above statement to a white Guy/or any other nation Guy that Why our Temple has these Pictures or Why our Parades have These Picture?

- And just another point if I dont Support Khalistan It dont mean That I like Indra Ghandhi. That was not the wisest statement to say that anyone can carry Indra Gandhi in Sikh Parade. I would say who so ever do that is not a Sikh!

And My View.. Define Khalistan.. Get a Governing Body.. Clear what you want to Achieve and Why? .. Convince the opposing parties and Then follow it as the entire Sikh Nation.. Rather than show off's!!

Offline TheStig

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Re: Sikh Extremist is on a Rise: Dosanjh (B.C. MP)
« Reply #8 on: April 22, 2010, 11:39:45 PM »
Jhanda got fair points

Offline Rubbie

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Re: Sikh Extremist is on a Rise: Dosanjh (B.C. MP)
« Reply #9 on: April 22, 2010, 11:46:54 PM »
really i am also worried... these days... whatever is happening.. in canada..
its vry shameful
i dnt knw..how.. parents will convince their children to go to gurudwara sahib.... in near future

Offline ƁΔƘΓΔ

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Re: Sikh Extremist is on a Rise: Dosanjh (B.C. MP)
« Reply #10 on: April 23, 2010, 10:45:03 AM »
Dosanjh is right in some points, but the way he's talking, it almost seems too "political".


i dnt knw..how.. parents will convince their children to go to gurudwara sahib.... in near future

Enough children don't go for the right reasons already. This will be a nail in the coffin.

Offline Grenade Singh

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Re: Sikh Extremist is on a Rise: Dosanjh (B.C. MP)
« Reply #11 on: April 30, 2010, 05:01:56 PM »
Jhande, I will reply to your post when I have more time.

For now, here's a video during Air India 182 Inquiry, Police Officer Don McLean told John Major inquiry into Air India 182 Bombing that Indian Intelligence paid thousands of dollars to Punjabi media to change their propaganda tone in favor of Indian Government.

Indian Intelligence paid Thousands of Dollars to Punjabi Media


I'm not vouching for the statement given or supporting anyone, but just sharing a video someone shared.

 

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