Author Topic: What is Attitude of Sikhism towards Homosexuality?? (Read 8223 times)

Kudrat Kaur · « **on:** March 06, 2011, 09:44:59 PM »

This thing was stuck in my mind for many days, when someone asked me that What does Sikhism think about this new trend of homosexuality?

While i explained him like that this is kind of Gender identity disorder but when i searched about it this thing, this is not considered a disorder anymore.. Well, I dont know What do you guys think about it? but certainly I would like to hear your opinion too.. not just your personal opinion but What do you think about homosexuality on religious basis??

or Does Sikhism condemn homosexuality?? or We have just turned blind eye to this mater..

First i would like discuss about other Sikh organisations view point over this then would discuss about my point of view too..

Current Situation in India..

In India, Homosexuality was considered as criminal offence till 2009 but now it is bit tolerant. On 2 July 2009, the Delhi High Court court decriminalised homosexual intercourse between consenting adults, throughout India, where Section 377 of the Indian Penal Code was adjudged to violate the fundamental right to life and liberty and the right to equality as guaranteed by the Constitution of India.

A 2002 survey estimated that one-sixth of India's male and female population was homosexual.

Sikhism and Homosexuality-

Ethnicity Online website states that:
Sikhism is a very tolerant religion and seeks to find the truth rather than adhere rigidly
to rules. Homosexuality is not specifically banned in any of the writings of the Gurus, but
they do stress that God has intended people to live as man and wife, or to be celibate, with no
deviation from this design. This ambivalence allows most Sikhs to be very tolerant of
homosexuality and accept a homosexual individual while still regarding the practice as
against God’s design”

The Religion Facts website comments that:
The Sikh sacred text, the Guru Granth Sahib, is the highest authority in Sikhism. It is silent on the subject homosexuality. However, there are parts of the Guru Granth Sahib that have been interpreted to mean that homosexuality is wrong.

There are five vices outlined in the Guru Granth Sahib that are to be avoided by Sikhs. These vices are called the Five Thieves. They are Pride (aHankar), Anger (Krodh), Greed (LobH), Attachment (MoH), and Lust (Khaam). Many Sikhs believe that homosexual thoughts and behaviour are just manifestations of lust, and that it is therefore forbidden.

However, other Sikhs believe that Guru Nanak's emphasis on universal equality and brotherhood is fundamentally in support of gay rights. This view is held by a minority of Sikhs,many of whom have been born/raised in countries that are more tolerant towards homosexuality. Some Sikhs have even gone so far as to describe homosexuals as "the new Untouchables" in reference to Sikhism's rejection of the Indian caste system.

One of Sikhism underlying values is family living. Sikhs are expected to live in a family environment in order to conceive and nurture their children in order to perpetuate God's
creation. Any alternative manner of living is prohibited specifically a celibate lifestyle. Most Sikhs assume this means homosexuality, which cannot result in procreation, is unnatural and against God's will.

Another Sikh website notes that: Homosexuality is not addressed in scripture,Guru Granth Sahibji.

Akal Takht -During his meeting with the visiting Canadian Sikh MPs on 29 March 2005, Giani Joginder Singh Vedanti, the highest Sikh authority stated that homosexuality is "against the Sikh religion and the Sikh code of conduct and totally against the laws of nature." He called on Sikhs to support laws against gay marriage. He also denounced same-sex marriage and urged the Sikh assembly not to allow such ceremonies in a Sikh place of worship. According to him, “the Sikh code of conduct does not allow such marriages”.

Punjabi Janta Forums - Janta Di Pasand · « **on:** March 06, 2011, 09:44:59 PM »

Kudrat Kaur · « **Reply #1 on:** March 06, 2011, 09:46:52 PM »

if anyone think, this discussion is not so needed, you are very welcome to delete this post :)

ਕਰਮਵੀਰ ਸਿੰਘ · « **Reply #2 on:** March 06, 2011, 11:20:53 PM »

not at all kg its a good discussion. If we want fish then we have to dive in the sea. So if we need answer then we have to discuss. I think nothing wrong in this. We should clearify our doubts. Thanks for this post kg.
I think the homosexuality is defiantly a mental disorder. If its nt then what is the reason of this unnatural behaviour. So it should be cured. And if its nt a disorder then it is the worst form of lust.
U r absolutely right that Sikhism is agings of this. Bcoz if our guru restricted us to change or modify our body appearance than how can we say homosexuality is acceptable. It means to change or modify our internal or mind appearance. Homosexuality is against the law of nature in this way the creation will stop.
So to a Sikh its a sin. Sm people r translating gurbani in a convenient way . Sgpc already announced it against the sikhism.

Doabe Wala Jatt · « **Reply #3 on:** March 07, 2011, 12:45:50 PM »

^ Homosexuality is not a mental disorder.

I don't support homosexuality, but If someone is gay let them be as long as they don't do anything to you. What if someone is gay at your workplace and you have to work with him/her? Are you going to avoid them even though you have to work with them? How would they feel? how would you feel as a sikh If someone avoided you for being a sikh? We are not in the 1980's anymore even though India is still way behind. You gender has nothing to do with what you believe in. If someone is gay let them be, you don't have to worry as long as they don't do anything to you.

LondonPunjabi · « **Reply #4 on:** March 07, 2011, 03:00:31 PM »

Quote from: Pawan ਜੱtt on March 07, 2011, 12:45:50 PM

^ Homosexuality is not a mental disorder.

I don't support homosexuality, but If someone is gay let them be as long as they don't do anything to you. What if someone is gay at your workplace and you have to work with him/her? Are you going to avoid them even though you have to work with them? How would they feel? how would you feel as a sikh If someone avoided you for being a sikh? We are not in the 1980's anymore even though India is still way behind. You gender has nothing to do with what you believe in. If someone is gay let them be, you don't have to worry as long as they don't do anything to you.

I agree.

If I was a soldier in a trench, I could not care less if the soldier standing next to me was gay. I would be more interested in knowing whether he could fire a gun or not.

But in terms of religion, most will say homosexuality is against Natural Law. I do not believe at all it is a mental disorder.

Kudrat Kaur · « **Reply #5 on:** March 07, 2011, 08:49:19 PM »

Quote from: §¤§ KARAM §¤§ on March 06, 2011, 11:20:53 PM

not at all kg its a good discussion. If we want fish then we have to dive in the sea. So if we need answer then we have to discuss. I think nothing wrong in this. We should clearify our doubts. Thanks for this post kg.
I think the homosexuality is defiantly a mental disorder. If its nt then what is the reason of this unnatural behaviour. So it should be cured. And if its nt a disorder then it is the worst form of lust.
U r absolutely right that Sikhism is agings of this. Bcoz if our guru restricted us to change or modify our body appearance than how can we say homosexuality is acceptable. It means to change or modify our internal or mind appearance. Homosexuality is against the law of nature in this way the creation will stop.
So to a Sikh its a sin. Sm people r translating gurbani in a convenient way . Sgpc already announced it against the sikhism.

Thanks for response Karam. Well, I agree with you that Homosexuality could be kind of mental disorder.. because mere khyal vich koyee v born homosexual nai hunda, even ajj taj koyee "gay gene" v nai find out hoyea.. well, reasearch is still going on..

1.Par ik point teh mein tuhanu criticize karangi, Like tusi kiha ke People are translating Gurubani acoording to their own convenience then you r doing same thing When u said" Homosexuality is a sin". Gurubani vich ah cheej kite v nai likhi aa..

2.Even Jado Guru Ram Das ji ne 4 lawan da ucharan kitta ohna ne v ih kite nai mention kitta ke marriage sirf opposite sex vich hi ho sakdiyan ne.. ohna ne kiha ih sird do human souls da milan hunda..

3.ik hor point ithe, mein tuhanu pushna chahundi aa ke.. Lawan Vich Munda , kudi nu lead kyu karda? even ah v Gurubani vich kite nai likhia.. Well, I am not sure..Please correct me if i am wrong.

Kudrat Kaur · « **Reply #6 on:** March 07, 2011, 09:02:31 PM »

Quote from: Pawan ਜੱtt on March 07, 2011, 12:45:50 PM

^ Homosexuality is not a mental disorder.

I don't support homosexuality, but If someone is gay let them be as long as they don't do anything to you. What if someone is gay at your workplace and you have to work with him/her? Are you going to avoid them even though you have to work with them? How would they feel? how would you feel as a sikh If someone avoided you for being a sikh? We are not in the 1980's anymore even though India is still way behind. You gender has nothing to do with what you believe in. If someone is gay let them be, you don't have to worry as long as they don't do anything to you.

I respect you view point. I think Gurubani ne v sanu ihi sikhiya ditti aa..

ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਦਾਤਾ ਦਇਆਲੁ ਹੈ ਜਿਸ ਨੋ ਦਇਆ ਸਦਾ ਹੋਇ ॥
ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਅੰਦਰਹੁ ਨਿਰਵੈਰੁ ਹੈ ਸਭੁ ਦੇਖੈ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਇਕੁ ਸੋਇ ॥

As Sikh, We are supposed to respect everyone irrespective of Caste, Color, gender and sexuality. and if we you think, this is disorder then we are no one to condemn these people and making jokes on them.

I really feel bad, when people makes jokes on gays. Menu ik gal dasso je ik Amritdhari Sikh Gay hai tah tusi ohnu kahonge ke u r sinner and not supposed to follow Sikh religion. Even idda diyan cheejan ohna nu hor stress kardiyan ne and they like to hide these facts which lead to more distress to these people.

i would say, We are no one to condemn them. We should respect them too.

ਕਰਮਵੀਰ ਸਿੰਘ · « **Reply #7 on:** March 07, 2011, 11:12:49 PM »

Quote from: Pawan ਜੱtt on March 07, 2011, 12:45:50 PM

^ Homosexuality is not a mental disorder.

I don't support homosexuality, but If someone is gay let them be as long as they don't do anything to you. What if someone is gay at your workplace and you have to work with him/her? Are you going to avoid them even though you have to work with them? How would they feel? how would you feel as a sikh If someone avoided you for being a sikh? We are not in the 1980's anymore even though India is still way behind. You gender has nothing to do with what you believe in. If someone is gay let them be, you don't have to worry as long as they don't do anything to you.

hanji sahi kiha bai ji k jad tak kise chiz da mainu nuksan nai mainu usda virodh nai karna chahida. Bt mai jo v kiha oh sikhi nu mukh rakh k kiha. Mai eh nai kiha k unha nu ignore karna chahida ya smaj cho kadh dena chahida.
Baki mainu ik gal daso je 'homosexuality' mansik rog nai ta is tra de vivhar di vjah ki e.
Plz koi jvab mile ta zroor share karna.

█ ▌ﻝαᔕ ▌█ · « **Reply #8 on:** March 07, 2011, 11:19:50 PM »

well i ill keep myself away from this topic
i know it will get worse...people can't take things against religion...cuz jithe religion naal related koi gall howe oh hamesha ladayi da kar hundi a

ਕਰਮਵੀਰ ਸਿੰਘ · « **Reply #9 on:** March 07, 2011, 11:41:21 PM »

Quote from: Kudrat K. Grewal on March 07, 2011, 08:49:19 PM

Thanks for response Karam. Well, I agree with you that Homosexuality could be kind of mental disorder.. because mere khyal vich koyee v born homosexual nai hunda, even ajj taj koyee "gay gene" v nai find out hoyea.. well, reasearch is still going on..

1.Par ik point teh mein tuhanu criticize karangi, Like tusi kiha ke People are translating Gurubani acoording to their own convenience then you r doing same thing When u said" Homosexuality is a sin". Gurubani vich ah cheej kite v nai likhi aa..

2.Even Jado Guru Ram Das ji ne 4 lawan da ucharan kitta ohna ne v ih kite nai mention kitta ke marriage sirf opposite sex vich hi ho sakdiyan ne.. ohna ne kiha ih sird do human souls da milan hunda..

3.ik hor point ithe, mein tuhanu pushna chahundi aa ke.. Lawan Vich Munda , kudi nu lead kyu karda? even ah v Gurubani vich kite nai likhia.. Well, I am not sure..Please correct me if i am wrong.

hanji kg bohut sohne swal uthaye ne.
1. Pehle swal da jwab ta thodi te meri post de vich hi e. Tuc kiha gurbani sab nu braber da darja dindi e. Is lai eh doubtfull e k sikhi is de hak vich e ya virodh kardi e. Eh bilkul sahi e gurbani harek nu braber mandi e par smajik roop vich. Kise de smajik darje, jaat, rang ya yaun vivhar di vjah karke koi shota vada ni. Par is da matlab eh nai k sikhi is de pakh vich e. Meri pehli post dhyan nal parho . Je sikhi sade bahri savroop nu v badlan nu varjit kardi e ta is tra da vivhar sade androoni te mansik vivhar nu badlan de pakh vich kive ho sakdi e. Ise lai mai kiha k jo tuc statement diti oh sirf apni sahulat anusar kiti gai translation e.
2. Gurbani vich darj lanwa vich do manukha da nai do atmava de milan di gal e. Jis vich parmatma nu khasam kiha gya te jiv atma nu gharwali. Lanwa vich parmatma te atma de milan dia 4 stages da varnan e . So unha vich is tra de tatha da spashtikaran nai milda.
3. Jive mai dasya k lanwa vele manuk prtik matar hunde ne . Jiv atma khasam de lar lagdi e . Ise lai aurat khasam de lar lagdi e. Baki eh point vich ta mai logic jiha kayam kita. Je eh sahi na lage ta samjh lyo eh mard pardhan smaj de karan e.ha ha ha thax kg

Ķιℓℓα Ķαuя · « **Reply #10 on:** March 08, 2011, 12:08:09 AM »

I don't believe its a mental disorder..although it was classified as it ...anyways i think its just feelings that one may have formed over the years just like we pick our own interest of movies to watch, friends to hang out with, food to eat and so on ...no one is born with it, its developed overtime ...i don't believe that a male is born saying oh i'm going to end up with a female and female saying with male its developed over time as one learns to live in this so called "world"

i also feel bad when people make jokes on gay/lesbians ...they are humans too! so respect them.

i'm not sure about if it is allowed or not in Sikhism...i haven't heard or read anything in Gurbani about it but then again Gurbani is written in a language that is so deep and beyond our understanding (at least beyond my understanding) anyhow i think its not acceptable in our society or culture not too sure about religion

_Beast_ · « **Reply #11 on:** March 08, 2011, 12:14:41 AM »

Jee jant sabh sharan tumari, sarbh chint tuj passe.

҂ ȿḉặᵰɗἷἧäѷїѧҋ↔ᶀɍǐȶĩṧӊ ₰ · « **Reply #12 on:** March 08, 2011, 05:21:09 AM »

Quote from: Pawan ਜੱtt on March 07, 2011, 12:45:50 PM

^ Homosexuality is not a mental disorder.

I don't support homosexuality, but If someone is gay let them be as long as they don't do anything to you. What if someone is gay at your workplace and you have to work with him/her? Are you going to avoid them even though you have to work with them? How would they feel? how would you feel as a sikh If someone avoided you for being a sikh? We are not in the 1980's anymore even though India is still way behind. You gender has nothing to do with what you believe in. If someone is gay let them be, you don't have to worry as long as they don't do anything to you.

2nd this.

Doabe Wala Jatt · « **Reply #13 on:** March 09, 2011, 03:11:32 PM »

Quote from: §¤§ KARAM §¤§ on March 07, 2011, 11:12:49 PM

Quote from: Pawan ਜੱtt on March 07, 2011, 12:45:50 PM
^ Homosexuality is not a mental disorder.

I don't support homosexuality, but If someone is gay let them be as long as they don't do anything to you. What if someone is gay at your workplace and you have to work with him/her? Are you going to avoid them even though you have to work with them? How would they feel? how would you feel as a sikh If someone avoided you for being a sikh? We are not in the 1980's anymore even though India is still way behind. You gender has nothing to do with what you believe in. If someone is gay let them be, you don't have to worry as long as they don't do anything to you.
hanji sahi kiha bai ji k jad tak kise chiz da mainu nuksan nai mainu usda virodh nai karna chahida. Bt mai jo v kiha oh sikhi nu mukh rakh k kiha. Mai eh nai kiha k unha nu ignore karna chahida ya smaj cho kadh dena chahida.
Baki mainu ik gal daso je 'homosexuality' mansik rog nai ta is tra de vivhar di vjah ki e.
Plz koi jvab mile ta zroor share karna.

Veer ji, only the mental disorder part was directed toward your post. The rest was my opinion.

Just to add what about the people who are born hermaphrodite? Good example big pop star Lady Gaga. She was born that way. Look how big she is now? Did he gender matter? No? What If someone like that was born into a sikh family? Are we not going to accept them? So let's put it this way If there is a gay sikh, he/she should not be allowed into the temple? That's just wrong and unacceptable. What I don't understand here is why does everyone think religion above everything?

Author Topic: What is Attitude of Sikhism towards Homosexuality?? (Read 8223 times)

Kudrat Kaur

What is Attitude of Sikhism towards Homosexuality??

Punjabi Janta Forums - Janta Di Pasand

What is Attitude of Sikhism towards Homosexuality??

Kudrat Kaur

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ਕਰਮਵੀਰ ਸਿੰਘ

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Kudrat Kaur

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ਕਰਮਵੀਰ ਸਿੰਘ

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█ ▌ﻝαᔕ ▌█

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ਕਰਮਵੀਰ ਸਿੰਘ

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Ķιℓℓα Ķαuя

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_Beast_

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҂ ȿḉặᵰɗἷἧäѷїѧҋ↔ᶀɍǐȶĩṧӊ ₰

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